Smoking or non?
It's been in the papers recently how Kanawha County will soon follow Putnam County's lead and ban smoking in bars. On the WVGazzmusic blog, we asked area fans if that would make them more or less likely to attend area shows.After the debate reached near-meltdown status, we pulled the plug on it before someone put a cigarette out on someone's forehead. Now, the debate has spilled over into the localbands blog. Would a smoke-free local music venue be more of an attraction? Or, would you boycott said venues as another instance of big government, jack-booted nannyism?
Leave a comment and let us know. It's not like you have a choice or anything.
56 Comments:
You should not have shut down a spirited exchange. Maybe if the gazzeditor wasn't so intrusive the gazz might have more participation than it does. But instead, it's stale, lifeless and amemic.
In my limited experience on this site, I've noticed that the gazzeditor is very quick to wield her (it has to be a female of about 26 or 27 who lives on the East End in an apartment with a cat and a mood scarf covered lamp from Budget Tapes and Records)or his (in this case it would be a youngish guy who drinks imported beer, is a Phish fan and loves to eat at the Bluegrass) power to easily.
Leave people alone and let them go gazzeditor (or is it gazzeditrix?)
If people don't want to be around cigarette smoke when they go out they should stay at home and watch Mountain Stage or Austin City Limits!
I am so sick of the goverment trying to rule more & more of our lives. How much more are us smokers to stand for. If you want a cigarettes in a bar then that is your right! If non-smokers but "drinkers" don't want to be around cigarette smoke then you sit outside - or better then that stay at home and drink and save a "life" by not drinking and driving.
Hey Non-smoking drinker: YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. You can save (2) lives by not going into bars where there is smoking. Yours by all that second hand smoke your having to smell, and possibly my childs that "YOU" very well could hit on your way home drunk. You have no room to be self-rightoues if you drink at all.
Anonymous number 1 (why all the freaking anonymous posts?) couldn't be more wrong about gazz editor. It's actually a chimp, much like people who post complaints about not being able to post. Say something next time.
I smoke, but I don't expect everyone else to. Either way, banning smoking from bars will kill the bar scene altogether. Many folks who do not consider themselves smokers still smoke when they are drinking.
In Columbus OH, they figured it out. The fine each nite there is someone smoking in the bar is $200. They have a tip jar set up so the smokers can help pay for the fine. Apparently it works...
Time to chime:
I certainly wouldn't boycott a business that went smoke-free because of a county regulation. What sense would that make? The business owner had no choice. Why hurt them twice?
As far as smoking in general, I find it funny that people say non-smokers can just go outside. Why don't the smokers just go outside (they are the ones emitting fumes) and end the whole issue? Is smoking indoors really that important?
We forget that smoking is not a right nor a need. Smokers already enjoy the right to take a combined two or more hours out of their workday to go smoke. Do alcoholics get to run out for a shot? No. Do non-smokers get to prattle about for an hour just for the hell of it? No.
Yet smokers feel asking them not to kill everyone in the room is unreasonable. Everyone has a right to go out and have a nice evening, not just those who suck on smoldering leaves. Your habit, althought legal, intrudes on that right for people who exercised another right to not smoke. Guns are also legal, but we don't let people fire them in neighborhoods. Few people say, 'Well, just don't stand in front of the barrel.'
Get with it smokers -- your habit comes with certain inconveniences (like going outside) that you alone should have to live with. After all, you started.
The detrimental effects of smoking have been known for decades, including causing and/or exacerbating a wide variety of medical problems, such as lung cancer, bronchitis, emphysema, and heart disease.
Incidence of impotence is approximately 85 percent higher in male smokers compared to non-smokers, and it is a key cause of erectile dysfunction. Smoking causes impotence because it promotes arterial narrowing.
Research has generated scientific evidence that secondhand smoke (e.g. smoke passively inhaled by non-smokers after it was exhaled by active smokers) causes the same problems as direct smoking, including lung cancer, cardiovascular disease and lung ailments such as COPD, bronchitis and asthma. Specifically, meta-analyses have shown lifelong non-smokers with partners who smoke in the home have been shown to have a 20-30% greater risk of lung cancer, and those exposed to cigarette smoke in the workplace have an increased risk of 16-19%.
A study issued in 2002 by the International Agency for Research on Cancer of the World Health Organization concluded that nonsmokers are exposed to the same carcinogens as active smokers. Sidestream smoke contains more than 4000 chemicals, including 69 known carcinogens such as formaldehyde, lead, arsenic, benzene, and radioactive polonium 210, and several well-established carcinogens have been shown by the tobacco companies' own research to be present at higher concentrations in sidestream smoke than in mainstream smoke because passive smokers do not gain the benefit of the filter.
There is a general scientific consensus that passive smoking creates a wide range of health risks.
Bans on smoking in bars and restaurants can substantially improve the air quality in such establishments. For example, one study listed on the website of the CDC (Center for Disease Control) states that New York's statewide law to eliminate smoking in enclosed workplaces and public places substantially reduced RSP (respirable suspended particles) levels in western New York hospitality venues. RSP levels were reduced in every venue that permitted smoking before the law was implemented, including venues in which only secondhand smoke from an adjacent room was observed at baseline. The CDC concluded that their results were similar to other studies which also showed substantially improved indoor air quality after smoking bans.
A 2004 study showed that in New Jersey (which had not yet enacted its ban), bars and restaurants had more than nine times the levels of indoor air pollution of neighboring New York City, which had enacted its ban.
Research has also shown that improved air quality translates to decreased toxin exposure among employees. For example, among employees of the Norwegian establishments that enacted smoking bans, tests showed improved (decreased) levels of nicotine in the urine of both smoking and non-smoking workers (as compared with measurements prior to the ban).
In the first 18 months after the town of Pueblo, Colorado enacted a smoking ban in 2003, hospital admissions for heart attacks dropped 27%. Admissions in neighboring towns without smoking bans showed no change. The American Heart Association said, "The decline in the number of heart attack hospitalizations within the first year and a half after the non-smoking ban that was observed in this study is most likely due to a decrease in the effect of secondhand smoke as a triggering factor for heart attacks."
Similar findings are beginning to emerge from other areas which have enacted bans. Researchers at Dundee university found significant improvements in the health of bar staff in the two months following the ban. They tested bar workers' lung function and inflammatory markers a month before the ban came in, and again two months after it had been introduced. The number showing symptoms related to passive smoking fell from more than 80% to less than half, with reduced levels of nicotine in the blood and improvements in lung function of as much as 10%.
I'm somewhat sympathetic to the libertarian/anti-nanny state argument, but in the end, I don't really give a rip if smoking is banned. I'm not a smoker. I hate breathing in cigarette smoke, and most of all, I hate that my clothes and my hair stink to high heaven after I leave a bar.
Suggesting that non-smokers are the ones who should go outside is laughable. The bottom line is that as much as smokers might wish it to be so, smoking is not a right, so if the majority of people want it banned in bars, then you lose. Suck it up. The nasty, tar-laden smoke, that is.
Oh, and as for boycotting, that's hardly an option when smoking is banned in all bars. Something tells me smokers will not stop going to bars altogether just because they can't smoke there.
Ok, we have all heard all the "facts" on how bad second hand smoke is for everyone..., enough already!!
This whole mess boils down to one simple thing, rights.
All you non-smokers out there have the right to not have to smell/breathe cigarette smoke, but did it ever cross your minds that I have the right to smoke too?
Why, after years of being able to freely do what I want, where ever I want, do you all (non-smokers) feel you have the additional right to come along and infringe on my right to do what I choose to do?
Drinking and smoking pretty-much go hand-in-hand, you have a couple of drinks you want a cigarette, and now, because you non-smokers think you are God's gift to the bar/nightclub scene, I have to go outside to do what I always could do right there at the bar?
This is turning into a rant, sorry, it just makes me a little angry that if I can have this right taken away under the guise of "good health practices", what rights are next? Take away my right to bear arms because I might shoot someone who is breaking into my house? Let's do away with the right to free-speech, we might say something that someone finds offensive.
Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? But that's just what is being done, and if it get's pulled off, what right is next?
Ah, another ethical quandry for the ages!
I say forget the whole smoking debate. West Virginia is wasting resources they could allocate to an even graver medical nightmare: obesity.
That's right, WV is one of the fattest states in the nation. The child obesity rate has more than tripled in the past few decades. Kids are developing ADULT onset diabetes...before they even have dirty thoughts about the other sex. This may be the first generation of kids to NOT outlive their parents.
Now there's an issue to tackle. I'm going to go have a smoke and think about it.
Smoking is hardly on the list with free speech, the right to bear arms, to refuse quarter to troops and any other part of the Constitution. Here's the thing: smoker's are so spoiled by years of being able to exercise their dirty habit that much like children they're lashing out because they can't do what they want. Boo hoo. You still get 'smoke' breaks, you still get to litter (because for some reason you think butts aren't trash) and YOU STILL GET TO SMOKE!!! Just not where it harms the rest of us. The difference is non-smokers aren't killing people by NOT SMOKING. You are. Sure it's your right, but you're the exerciser, so you need to abide by the parameters of that right. Sex is legal and fairly enjoyable, too. But does that mean people should be allowed to screw in the street? Hardly (even though it would be a good conversation piece). Why? Because your rights have limits in the public sphere. Some things are inherently inappropriate. You brought up offensive comments -- those are words. They may piss me off or hurt my feelings, but I can get away from them by going across the room or ignoring you. They certainly won't kill me. Toxic fumes allow no such escape short of derailing my entire night. In that same vein, you may see it as your right to punch someone because they say something you don't like. Many children think this, also. But guess what? You don't. Harming others is not your right no matter how much you might enjoy doing so. Grow up.
Personally, I like to pass big smelly gas bombs out of my butt any old time I want and I think it's my right, but that would just be rude. My flatus might make you pass out, but there's no proof it causes cancer like your second hand smoke does.
I enjoy going out and catching local bands. I don't enjoy coming home reeking of tobacco. Or waking up the next morning with my sinuses messed up for most of the day.
The facts are out there about the effects of both smoking and secondhand smoke exposure. The object of these regulations is to protect the public health. Unless there's some legislation out there I'm unaware of, NOWHERE do these bans say you can't smoke in the privacy of your own home!! Just not in certain public areas.
Is that really such an unreasonable request?
Personally, I like smoking. That's my choice, my decision, I live with that. If I want to go out to eat, I understand I can't smoke in a restaurant, and I'm fine with that. However, if I want to go have a drink, I like to smoke while I do that. I for one would not be out very much if I had to run outside every 30 mins or so to smoke. What if I found it offensive that someone ate in front of me in a bar and asked them to go outside? Bars/drinks/smoke, always have gone together. As long as you aren't purposefully blowing smoke at someone who hates it, which is extremely disrespectful, I believe we should all be allowed to at least TRY and relax and enjoy local music.
I say go with what Caustic Eye Productions said. I for one would contribute to the fine. I love to smoke when I drink, it's my habit and if I go somewhere that's what I choose to do. I wouldn't go out if I was going to get "policed" about smoking. What about everyone doing their drugs in the bathrooms of every bar in town? Isn't that far worse than a little bit of cigarette smoke. Oh sorry, we can't mention that can we.
Of course you can mention it (localdrugs) because the $40 billion dollar gorilla in that bathroom bears mentioning as it relates to this.
The state is basically criminalizing the behavior (smoking) of people who buy and consume a legal product (cigs).
Now, I'm not a fancypants, big city lawyah, but if they're going to criminalize the behavior while leaving the product legal, they should legalize, or at least decriminalize, grass, as we used to call it when I was at Woodstock.
Sorry if you need to delete this comment gazz lady, but both papers' editorials pretty much agree.
Disagree?
Gazzlady?
Is it bingo today?
Apply directly to the forehead
Apply directly to the forehead
Apply directly to the forehead
Why delete your comment, Mr./Mrs./Ms./Senor Anonymous? You are simply discussing issues in this thread. Good discussion, posters all. The discussion at wvgazzmusic was not shut down by moi. Mr. Harrah shifted it over here to LocalMusic and a wider audience is now seeing it. love, GZ
That is correct...
When I said shut down, I meant "stop promoting the blog thru Myspace bulletins"
And, when I implied that the debate would melt the very internet that sustains it on the Myspace blog, I meant more than 10 people had commented!
Personally I can't stand cigarette smoke. My mom smoked, and I grew up around that and DuPont plant.
I've never smoked one cigarette in my life.
I hated that she smoked and I see parents smoking in front of their little kids, and it kind of makes me mad.
Now, if we accept that second-hand smoke does cause all these problems with people who don't smoke, then it's a public health issue, and they're going to do it anyway. Meaning, do something about it. I wouldn't want to eat in a restaurant with people smoking in it. I would say it's for the better. But, I do hate those RAZE ads.
I am for people being able to party at a venue though, so maybe there could be a smoking section...maybe with video slots, or something cool like that. Or better ventilation.
And, I'd like to talk about something near and dear to me:
Gazzlady...
She has a tough job, tossing out the trolls and the comment riff-raff like a kind old 350-pound ex NFL offensive tackle, but there are indeed limitations where things can go, since this is a newspaper.
All good though, cause there's going to be even cooler stuff on this sooner, we have to constantly move forward, like a shark...
Its a bunch of BS to say that all people who like to have a drink at a bar also smoke.
I personally know many frieght train smokers who wouldn't think of touching a drink and many more people who enjoy drinking without the sidekick of a cancerstick.
I am sick to death of my entire life it has been the rights of the smoker. They have been in control of the air I breath and the ruin of my lungs, my kidneys, my eyes, my sinus, my internal organs. Yes people, check with your doctor, smoking causes many many other problems besides diseases of your lungs.
So now your little yellow stain fingers are getting stepped on. Well get over it. You want to smoke and fill the air with filth, fine... freeze your butt off outside like we've had to for years. You go out becasue you believe that you are the life of every party, WRONG, you're killing everyone with your smoke and bad breath! You stand there with your cigg blazing and you hardly even drag off it, instead it just sends a steady stream of crap to me and everyone around you.
I'll give you your same advise, you want to smoke and can't at a bar, stay home and stink yourself to high heaven. I for one won't miss you.
Instead of bitching about it, why not make a well-ventilated smoking section and a nonsmoking section in these places?
I'm a former smoker, so maybe I'm biased, but scientists have reached the general consensus that burning fossil fuels is destroying the ozone layer, heating the earth, and endangering the lives of every human being on this planet. Carbon monoxide, the compound in cigarette smoke (first and second hand) that gives you cancer, comes dumping out of the exhaust pipe of your car at thousands of cubic centimeters a second.
But I don't see a government push to outlaw cars, do I? Funny thing, that. Its almost like people only oppose public health risks only when it doesn't negatively impact THEIR life....
I asked the question here last year:
http://www.thegazz.com/blogs/popcult/2005/12/rant-week-day-two-smoking.html
Why should smoking be more legal than sex? Consenting adults, in the privacy of their own home, should be able to smoke all the want. Just don't do it in public, in front of the kids, or with animals.
Learn a little self control, ya freakin' addicts!
There's been non-smoking sections of various establishments (namely restaurants) for years. The problem is that even with those sections, you're STILL exposed to second hand smoke.
As I said earlier--none of these regulations are telling you "You can't smoke any time, any place, anywhere!". They are just simply trying to establish a healthy atmosphere for the general public.
Problem is, for every reasonably minded smoker out there, there's plenty of them who are of the mindset that "I'm going to suck on my cancer stick and tough crap if you don't like it. I don't care if you have breathing difficulties or are about to drop dead of a heart attack, I want to smoke and enjoy the band, so screw you!"
Man, the non smokers get pretty hot about all this. I'll add some more:
I, for one, don't smoke around my kid. I don't even smoke in my own house. I don't go out every 15 minutes to smoke when I'm at work. I don't even smoke when I eat. I like to smoke, but I also know there's a time and a place for it. I don't care about facts this and facts that. The fact that I do smoke means that I am aware that it's a dirty, unhealthy, and expensive habit, but I still choose to do so.
I understand that non-smokers don't want to have it blown in their face, or go home with stinky clothes. I can't even stand my own after I come home from a bar. I enjoy music, which means that I have to see it at a local venue (i.e. a bar) where drinking goes on. I do drink, but I'm not a heavy drinker, 2 or 3 beers will get me through the night. When I go to any bar, I expect there will be people drinking. I have to deal with sloppy and annoying drunks almost every time I go out. Would I expect them to go outside because they are inconveniencing me? I think not.
Now, you have the choice to go to a non-smoking, non drinking venue such as the HYAMP, but as most adults who have happened to step foot into places like these can attest to, this is not a place for adults. A bunch of 15-year-olds with bad haircuts screaming incomprehensible lyrics is not my, or many other people's idea of a good time. If you want to see diverse and dare I say "quality" music, you have to go to a bar. It's just how it is.
It's a bar, for goodness sake. I'm not blowing smoke on your food and I'm not blowing smoke on your kids. I'll put up with your drunk [butt] if you deal with my smoke, in order to hear some good tunes for a few hours.
If this doesn't meet your requirements, then go to the symphony. Better yet, sit at home and listen to the radio.
I would say yeah it would effect my decision to go see bands. Inflation already has me staying home. A Smoking Ban will more likely keep me home. At least the gestapo hasn't started kicking in our doors yet to take away our cigarettes.
I say we ban drinking in bars. I dont drink, and I am now paralized from the waste down because of a drunk driver. Dont you think thats messed my life up just a little bit?
My wife left me, because I could no longer do what she needed me to do, she took my kids and I get a really REALLY small check from the government that can almost pay for my bills and a couple meals a day.
I dont smoke and honestly I dont care. I would rather have smokers in bars than drunks. Drunks are a risk to people who have NO CHOICE to be put in that situation, whereas going to a bar is YOUR CHOICE to inhale smoke.
I have been in a bar one time in my life. One time and I am now messed up for the rest of my life. You hotheaded non-smokers go out to these bars every day and put yourself in that situation. All you can do is wine and cry about how you dont want smoking in bars, well I dont want any of you drinking. Tally it up, how many people die from smoking and how many from drunk drivers?
You dont HAVE to go to a bar. You CAN stay home. YOU DO, however, have to go to work. Thats what happened to me, I was on my way to work and then BAM! Out of nowhere I was never the same again.
I have never once asked for pitty from anyone. Even though I didnt choose this life I dont go around crying about how bad drunks are. I dont go around attacking somone for doing something that I could just as easily leave for. Would I go to a concert and then complain about the music being loud? No. I know the music is loud there when I get up and put my shoes on.
There are already bans on everywhere else. Non-smoking restaunts, non-smoking stores, etc etc. So it is NO LONGER because you cant excape it. I say forget about the ban and let the smokers have the bars. Non-smokers can go other places and do other things. You know there are other things to do with your time than go to bars.
I agree with the nony a few posts up said. We need to stop worring about that, let it be, and worry about more dangerous things such as drugs. If I dont want to be around smoking, I dont go to bars. If I dont want food, I dont go to a grocery store. You get what I mean.
Just stop your complaining. Many of you are starting to sound like children. "He took my toy mommy, give it back." "I knew he would hit me mommy, but I walked up and cussed him out anyway." If you are so worried about going to nonsmoking concerts you know what you do? You all come together and open a non-smoking bar. Then YOU can book the acts you want to book, and YOU can tell somone there is no smoking.
All useless words. I dont see any action except for pressuring the politics to put a ban on smoking because non-smokers want EVERYTHING. Ill agree, I dont like smoke in my face, but you know what? People like to enjoy themselves, so why not just let them have the bars, or like i said : Get together and open up a non-smoking bar and book the acts you want to hear. Im sure with all the little Emos that seem to be complaining about non-smoking, you can come up with more than enough money to start you up a bar. I still wouldnt come to it though, because I think we should put a ban on drinking before we put a ban on smoking. I have never in my life been drunk and I will never be. You non-smoking drinkers think that you drinking that beer doesnt affect me? Think again. Because here I am in my wheelchair because of people like you.
Thats right, the guy who hit me was NOT a smoker. He just came out to drink.
Stick that in your "pipe" and "smoke" it.
one time my sister in law stood OUTSIDE coughing at a smoker at the lowes down by....big bear...is it still big bear?...rite across the river from FMC.
amazing that people who live in the chemical valley...who STILL live in the chemical valley...can gag at a gnat and swallow a camel...my mom always said.cigarettes are fouling your air,are they?that`s prolly what eats the gold off the dome every few years,huh?
outlaw potato chips,too...fat asses.oh and alcohol!outlaw that!i don`t wanna get killed by anyone`s second hand drunkeness!
but i`m just another dirty damned smoker.
sober and coughing....lets have a race between my lungs and your liver and see who gets THERE first.
and i apologize for treating this whole thing like you ALL go to bars and drink....like there`s nothing else to do there...like that`s ALL you do...there....i`m such a narrow facist...
I don't smoke OR drink, so that makes me morally superior to Mr. "I'm anonymous so I can make up a sob story about being paralyzed."
Talk about butting into a discussion with an irrelevant point. This is a smoking thread, not a drinking thread.
The truth is, smoking and drinking are two different vices. You can drink without getting it all over the people next to you. Driving drunk is a crime. Maybe smoking in public should be too. Both put innocent people's lives at risk.
There's a town in Ohio that banned smoking in public, and told people to call 911 if they saw somebody smoking. I'm cool with that.
Smoking should not be permitted in any establishment that has live music. When are these whiny smokers going to admit that they are drug addicts? Society should not act as enablers for these pathetic losers. s
They should ban smoking in public. Ban all tobacco advertising. Raise the taxes on tobacco. Legalize pot, but make smoking it in public the same as smoking tobacco. Tax the hell out of it, and give the money to me, for thinking up the idea.
Its pretty crazy how people can justify there habits to be ok, like a drug addict that see no wrong, with drugs, the drunk, that see its ok too drive. My theory has always been as long as its in my house, its my business. So shouldnt business have a right to decide if they want smoking in there establishment. After all, they made the sacrifices too get there.
timothy - still smokin' bidis?
I own an establishment in Putnam County and "Smoking is Allowed" in my venue. I have several non-smokers that are regulars at my Nightclub. I have adequate exhusts (5) and no-one has ever complained about the smoke in my Club.
The County already forces me to have an "Over 21yrs old" Allowed Law. Excuse me but, if you are Over 21yrs old, aren't you an adult and have the FREEDOM of Choice. Meaning if you do not like it because people are smoking in the Club, then just go somewhere where you are comfortable. I have, and other Bars have been here before this smoking ban took effect.
Why couldn't someone invest in several thousands of dollars like I have and open a "Non-smoking Bar" to accomadate the non-smokers, that would be a solution. The question to that is anyone willing to do that? Now that would be a solution for this issue.
I have created a place for people to go and see great Entertainment and socialize and have fun. We want that for everyone. Smokers included and Non-smokers included.
This is The United States of America, The Land of The Free, or is it?
Remember you have Freedom of Choice.
these non-smoking whiners need to get a life and quit trying to run other peoples.
These smoking whiners need to hurry up and experience cancer first-hand, so they can finally get it through their thick skulls that they're blowing poison into the air.
I notice many smokers object to a clean air regulation on the following grounds: "I like to smoke, especially when I drink, so the public at large should accommodate me." Sure. Well, I'd like to feel up every gorgeous woman I see, but THEIR right to being spared my meathooks prohibits that.
It won't kill you to go outside for a butt. And if you decide because of some fool-ass, stupid-American, "I'm-going-to-hurt-myself-to-prove-a-point" reasoning that you won't go out anymore because you can't suck on paper, guess what? Just like smoking, that's your decision.
The point is not that people don't like smoking so they want to do away with it (yes, I'm talking to you moron who said bars might as well ban eating). It's deadly to you and everyone around you. This is a safety issue, not one of personal preference. Non-smokers aren't hurting anyone. You are. (That said, non-smokers who keep bringing up their clothes and sinuses are also missing the point.)
As for the bullshit about drunk drivers and drugs and other completely ridiculous points people keep bringing up -- THOSE THINGS ARE ALREADY ILLEGAL! The legislative step has been taken in those cases. Smoking is next. Get used to it.
coffee could be next...after cigarrettes,that is...last thing we need is a bunch of wide awake people runnin around....sleepwalking is GOOD for biznizz.think you`ll take that as easily?denial of your coffee shop drug?
The Law Is For The Protection Of The People.
You can drink coffee without getting it in the lungs of the person sitting next to you, unless you have a really bad case of the java shakes.
Not a valid argument.
Ban smoking in public, then go after stinky perfume. While it's bad coming home smelling like you've been raped by a hobo (thanks Bill Lynch), it's almost as bad coming home smelliing like you've been in a burning whorehouse.
It's not about YOU smoking. It's about US having to inhale your fumes.
What is so hard about that point?
i am all apologies.i wasn`t aware this was an argument.looks like your government settled that one for ya already.and i didn`t know it was really ABOUT anything either.
so i will say no more.
thank you
Tim Nick writes "The Law is for the Protection of the People" yet fails to realize how a law against smoking in PUBLIC (yes, smokers, you are the minority) protects people. Like most smokers, he's only concerned about himself and what he can do.
Admit it, Camel Joes, your protestations aren't about rights. They're about you wanting to do whatever you want, others be damned. As I've said before, children think like this, too. It's YOUR habit, so YOU need to adjust to the greater population -- not the other way around.
By your reasoning, it's a violation of my rights to be shushed in a library. I can scream like an idiot if I damn well please. But that's awfully considerate to...who was it again? Oh yeah. EVERYONE ELSE. That said, screaming rarely kills people. Smoking kills people who don't smoke (thanks, Chris Rock).
These objections go to the core of the worst traits of Americans. No consideration or care for anyone except themselves, the individual. I blame advertising and greed-fueled conservatism. No wonder you lot don't make anything anymore. Everyone is so wrapped up in being an individual (face it, you're not that interesting and everyone thinks so) they brush off the people around them no matter the consequence. Countries and societies don't work that way. You want to be a lone wolf, move to the woods. Then you can smoke all you like.
You smokers who want to smoke in public places know only rights and nothing about duties. Along with our rights as Americans come duties, something all of you have forgotten. Ban smoking in bars and only smokers will have to go outside to get their fix. You're addicts, people--be glad you can still legally purchase and enjoy your cancer sticks. And no words about how "they'll ban cigarettes next"--that is such a tired, worn-out argument.
Get a life and stop whining about your precious "right" (B.S.) to smoke!
Amen, (yet another) Anonymous.
As one of the non-smokers who mentioned my clothes -- I'm not missing the point. I wasn't saying that my desire not to have stinky clothes is the legal justification for a smoking ban; it's just the main reason that I personally welcome a ban.
Bob says smoke frop - not tobacco.
Praise Bob!
anyone who is morbidly obese should not be running their mouths about healthy lifestyles to smokers, because I can quit smoking tomorrow, but you'll still be fat.
Basically, they're going to do the same things with overweight people for the health risks.
Food can be a drug too.
I've known people who have smoked until their 80's, but you don't see the obese people living very long, unfortunately.
Deal with it!
It seems to me that the debate is misdirected. Why forbid smoking under penalty of law when it would be less intrusive to let bar owners decide what they want to do to attract patrons?
If some folks are mortally offended by tobacco smoke, let them attend bars that cater to their taste. If a smoker simply must have a cig with his martini, then let him go to a bar that allows smoking.
Surely there is room in the world for establishments that choose to be smoke-free, or that choose to allow smoking. Why mandate what a buisness owner can do with his own property?
This isn't a consumer "rights" question - the "right" of people to smoke, or to avoid smoke - it's a property rights question. The right of the business owner to shape his product in such a way as to attract his desired clientele is an important one.
If you intend to remove a right, or ban a behavior that was previously legal you should have to prove two things 1) a serious public danger, and 2) that there is no less intrusive way to solve the problem.
We can argue point one until the universe perishes from heat death, but point 2 is the sticky bit. Why is it necessary to limit a previously enjoyed freedom? If there are no smoke-free bars in your area, why not? Would it be so hard to convince a bar owner that a large majority of his patrons would prefer that the bar be somke free?
Some participants in this discussion have attempted to trivialize this debate by crying "health nazi" from one end, and "merchant of death" from the other. Such hyperventilation causes more shortness of breath than unfiltered Camels. In fact, this isn't about "forcing" anyone to endure smoke, or not to smoke, it is about whether owners are free to cater to their customers.
anonymous says:
"In fact, this isn't about 'forcing' anyone to endure smoke, or not to smoke, it is about whether owners are free to cater to their customers."
But what about the employees. Are these employers going to be allowed to discriminate by hiring only smokers? Or by firing employees who do not wish to be exposed to deadly toxins.
By your line on thinking we would AT allow Massey to operate a coal mine without placing adequate beams to hold the ceiling up.
This isn't about property rights or a business owner choosing. A business that sold beverages that contained the ingredients of a cigarette would be shut down for the sake of public health.
Just to remind you, these are SOME of the goodies in cigarettes as additives:
Acetanisole
Acetic Acid
Acetoin
Acetophenone
6-Acetoxydihydrotheaspirane
2-Acetyl-3- Ethylpyrazine
2-Acetyl-5-Methylfuran
Acetylpyrazine
2-Acetylpyridine
3-Acetylpyridine
2-Acetylthiazole
Aconitic Acid
dl-Alanine
Alfalfa Extract
Allspice Extract,Oleoresin, and Oil
Allyl Hexanoate
Allyl Ionone
Almond Bitter Oil
Ambergris Tincture
Ammonia
Ammonium Bicarbonate
Ammonium Hydroxide
Ammonium Phosphate Dibasic
Ammonium Sulfide
Amyl Alcohol
Amyl Butyrate
Amyl Formate
Amyl Octanoate
alpha-Amylcinnamaldehyde
Amyris Oil
trans-Anethole
Angelica Root Extract, Oil and Seed Oil
Anise
Anise Star, Extract and Oils
Anisyl Acetate
Anisyl Alcohol
Anisyl Formate
Anisyl Phenylacetate
Apple Juice Concentrate, Extract, and Skins
Apricot Extract and Juice Concentrate
1-Arginine
Asafetida Fluid Extract And Oil
Ascorbic Acid
1-Asparagine Monohydrate
1-Aspartic Acid
Balsam Peru and Oil
Basil Oil
Bay Leaf, Oil and Sweet Oil
Beeswax White
Beet Juice Concentrate
Benzaldehyde
Benzaldehyde Glyceryl Acetal
Benzoic Acid, Benzoin
Benzoin Resin
Benzophenone
Benzyl Alcohol
Benzyl Benzoate
Benzyl Butyrate
Benzyl Cinnamate
Benzyl Propionate
Benzyl Salicylate
Bergamot Oil
Bisabolene
Black Currant Buds Absolute
Borneol
Bornyl Acetate
Buchu Leaf Oil
1,3-Butanediol
2,3-Butanedione
1-Butanol
2-Butanone
4(2-Butenylidene)-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
Butter, Butter Esters, and Butter Oil
Butyl Acetate
Butyl Butyrate
Butyl Butyryl Lactate
Butyl Isovalerate
Butyl Phenylacetate
Butyl Undecylenate
3-Butylidenephthalide
Butyric Acid]
Cadinene
Caffeine
Calcium Carbonate
Camphene
Cananga Oil
Capsicum Oleoresin
Caramel Color
Caraway Oil
Carbon Dioxide
Cardamom Oleoresin, Extract, Seed Oil, and Powder
Carob Bean and Extract
beta-Carotene
Carrot Oil
Carvacrol
4-Carvomenthenol
1-Carvone
beta-Caryophyllene
beta-Caryophyllene Oxide
Cascarilla Oil and Bark Extract
Cassia Bark Oil
Cassie Absolute and Oil
Castoreum Extract, Tincture and Absolute
Cedar Leaf Oil
Cedarwood Oil Terpenes and Virginiana
Cedrol
Celery Seed Extract, Solid, Oil, And Oleoresin
Cellulose Fiber
Chamomile Flower Oil And Extract
Chicory Extract
Chocolate
Cinnamaldehyde
Cinnamic Acid
Cinnamon Leaf Oil, Bark Oil, and Extract
Cinnamyl Acetate
Cinnamyl Alcohol
Cinnamyl Cinnamate
Cinnamyl Isovalerate
Cinnamyl Propionate
Citral
Citric Acid
Citronella Oil
dl-Citronellol
Citronellyl Butyrate
itronellyl Isobutyrate
Civet Absolute
Clary Oil
Clover Tops, Red Solid Extract
Cocoa
Cocoa Shells, Extract, Distillate And Powder
Coconut Oil
Coffee
Cognac White and Green Oil
Copaiba Oil
Coriander Extract and Oil
Corn Oil
Corn Silk
Costus Root Oil
Cubeb Oil
Cuminaldehyde
para-Cymene
1-Cysteine
Dandelion Root Solid Extract
Davana Oil
2-trans, 4-trans-Decadienal
delta-Decalactone
gamma-Decalactone
Decanal
Decanoic Acid
1-Decanol
2-Decenal
Dehydromenthofurolactone
Diethyl Malonate
Diethyl Sebacate
2,3-Diethylpyrazine
Dihydro Anethole
5,7-Dihydro-2-Methylthieno(3,4-D) Pyrimidine
Dill Seed Oil and Extract
meta-Dimethoxybenzene
para-Dimethoxybenzene
2,6-Dimethoxyphenol
Dimethyl Succinate
3,4-Dimethyl-1,2 Cyclopentanedione
3,5- Dimethyl-1,2-Cyclopentanedione
3,7-Dimethyl-1,3,6-Octatriene
4,5-Dimethyl-3-Hydroxy-2,5-Dihydrofuran-2-One
6,10-Dimethyl-5,9-Undecadien-2-One
3,7-Dimethyl-6-Octenoic Acid
2,4 Dimethylacetophenone
alpha,para-Dimethylbenzyl Alcohol
alpha,alpha-Dimethylphenethyl Acetate
alpha,alpha Dimethylphenethyl Butyrate
2,3-Dimethylpyrazine
2,5-Dimethylpyrazine
2,6-Dimethylpyrazine
Dimethyltetrahydrobenzofuranone
delta-Dodecalactone
gamma-Dodecalactone
para-Ethoxybenzaldehyde
Ethyl 10-Undecenoate
Ethyl 2-Methylbutyrate
Ethyl Acetate
Ethyl Acetoacetate
Ethyl Alcohol
Ethyl Benzoate
Ethyl Butyrate
Ethyl Cinnamate
Ethyl Decanoate
Ethyl Fenchol
Ethyl Furoate
Ethyl Heptanoate
Ethyl Hexanoate
Ethyl Isovalerate
Ethyl Lactate
Ethyl Laurate
Ethyl Levulinate
Ethyl Maltol
Ethyl Methyl Phenylglycidate
Ethyl Myristate
Ethyl Nonanoate
Ethyl Octadecanoate
Ethyl Octanoate
Ethyl Oleate
Ethyl Palmitate
Ethyl Phenylacetate
Ethyl Propionate
Ethyl Salicylate
Ethyl trans-2-Butenoate
Ethyl Valerate
Ethyl Vanillin
2-Ethyl (or Methyl)-(3,5 and 6)-Methoxypyrazine
2-Ethyl-1-Hexanol, 3-Ethyl -2 -Hydroxy-2-Cyclopenten-1-One
2-Ethyl-3, (5 or 6)-Dimethylpyrazine
5-Ethyl-3-Hydroxy-4-Methyl-2(5H)-Furanone
2-Ethyl-3-Methylpyrazine
4-Ethylbenzaldehyde
4-Ethylguaiacol
para-Ethylphenol
3-Ethylpyridine
Eucalyptol
Farnesol
D-Fenchone
Fennel Sweet Oil
Fenugreek, Extract, Resin, and Absolute
Fig Juice Concentrate
Food Starch Modified
Furfuryl Mercaptan
4-(2-Furyl)-3-Buten-2-One
Galbanum Oil
Genet Absolute
Gentian Root Extract
Geraniol
Geranium Rose Oil
Geranyl Acetate
Geranyl Butyrate
Geranyl Formate
Geranyl Isovalerate
Geranyl Phenylacetate
Ginger Oil and Oleoresin
1-Glutamic Acid
1-Glutamine
Glycerol
Glycyrrhizin Ammoniated
Grape Juice Concentrate
Guaiac Wood Oil
Guaiacol
Guar Gum
2,4-Heptadienal
gamma-Heptalactone
Heptanoic Acid
2-Heptanone
3-Hepten-2-One
2-Hepten-4-One
4-Heptenal
trans -2-Heptenal
Heptyl Acetate
omega-6-Hexadecenlactone
gamma-Hexalactone
Hexanal
Hexanoic Acid
2-Hexen-1-Ol
3-Hexen-1-Ol
cis-3-Hexen-1-Yl Acetate
2-Hexenal
3-Hexenoic Acid
trans-2-Hexenoic Acid
cis-3-Hexenyl Formate
Hexyl 2-Methylbutyrate
Hexyl Acetate
Hexyl Alcohol
Hexyl Phenylacetate
1-Histidine
Honey
Hops Oil
Hydrolyzed Milk Solids
Hydrolyzed Plant Proteins
5-Hydroxy-2,4-Decadienoic Acid delta- Lactone
4-Hydroxy-2,5-Dimethyl-3(2H)-Furanone
2-Hydroxy-3,5,5-Trimethyl-2-Cyclohexen-1-One
4-Hydroxy -3-Pentenoic Acid Lactone
2-Hydroxy-4-Methylbenzaldehyde
4-Hydroxybutanoic Acid Lactone
Hydroxycitronellal
6-Hydroxydihydrotheaspirane
4-(para-Hydroxyphenyl)-2-Butanone
Hyssop Oil
Immortelle Absolute and Extract
alpha-Ionone
beta-Ionone
alpha-Irone
Isoamyl Acetate
Isoamyl Benzoate
Isoamyl Butyrate
Isoamyl Cinnamate
Isoamyl Formate, Isoamyl Hexanoate
Isoamyl Isovalerate
Isoamyl Octanoate
Isoamyl Phenylacetate
Isobornyl Acetate
Isobutyl Acetate
Isobutyl Alcohol
Isobutyl Cinnamate
Isobutyl Phenylacetate
Isobutyl Salicylate
2-Isobutyl-3-Methoxypyrazine
alpha-Isobutylphenethyl Alcohol
Isobutyraldehyde
Isobutyric Acid
d,l-Isoleucine
alpha-Isomethylionone
2-Isopropylphenol
Isovaleric Acid
Jasmine Absolute, Concrete and Oil
Kola Nut Extract
Labdanum Absolute and Oleoresin
Lactic Acid
Lauric Acid
Lauric Aldehyde
Lavandin Oil
Lavender Oil
Lemon Oil and Extract
Lemongrass Oil
1-Leucine
Levulinic Acid
Licorice Root, Fluid, Extract and Powder
Lime Oil
Linalool
Linalool Oxide
Linalyl Acetate
Linden Flowers
Lovage Oil And Extract
1-Lysine]
Mace Powder, Extract and Oil
Magnesium Carbonate
Malic Acid
Malt and Malt Extract
Maltodextrin
Maltol
Maltyl Isobutyrate
Mandarin Oil
Maple Syrup and Concentrate
Mate Leaf, Absolute and Oil
para-Mentha-8-Thiol-3-One
Menthol
Menthone
Menthyl Acetate
dl-Methionine
Methoprene
2-Methoxy-4-Methylphenol
2-Methoxy-4-Vinylphenol
para-Methoxybenzaldehyde
1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-1-Penten-3-One
4-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Butanone
1-(para-Methoxyphenyl)-2-Propanone
Methoxypyrazine
Methyl 2-Furoate
Methyl 2-Octynoate
Methyl 2-Pyrrolyl Ketone
Methyl Anisate
Methyl Anthranilate
Methyl Benzoate
Methyl Cinnamate
Methyl Dihydrojasmonate
Methyl Ester of Rosin, Partially Hydrogenated
Methyl Isovalerate
Methyl Linoleate (48%)
Methyl Linolenate (52%) Mixture
Methyl Naphthyl Ketone
Methyl Nicotinate
Methyl Phenylacetate
Methyl Salicylate
Methyl Sulfide
3-Methyl-1-Cyclopentadecanone
4-Methyl-1-Phenyl-2-Pentanone
5-Methyl-2-Phenyl-2-Hexenal
5-Methyl-2-Thiophenecarboxaldehyde
6-Methyl-3,-5-Heptadien-2-One
2-Methyl-3-(para-Isopropylphenyl) Propionaldehyde
5-Methyl-3-Hexen-2-One
1-Methyl-3Methoxy-4-Isopropylbenzene
4-Methyl-3-Pentene-2-One
2-Methyl-4-Phenylbutyraldehyde
6-Methyl-5-Hepten-2-One
4-Methyl-5-Thiazoleethanol
4-Methyl-5-Vinylthiazole
Methyl-alpha-Ionone
Methyl-trans-2-Butenoic Acid
4-Methylacetophenone
para-Methylanisole
alpha-Methylbenzyl Acetate
alpha-Methylbenzyl Alcohol
2-Methylbutyraldehyde
3-Methylbutyraldehyde
2-Methylbutyric Acid
alpha-Methylcinnamaldehyde
Methylcyclopentenolone
2-Methylheptanoic Acid
2-Methylhexanoic Acid
3-Methylpentanoic Acid
4-Methylpentanoic Acid
2-Methylpyrazine
5-Methylquinoxaline
2-Methyltetrahydrofuran-3-One
(Methylthio)Methylpyrazine (Mixture Of Isomers)
3-Methylthiopropionaldehyde
Methyl 3-Methylthiopropionate
2-Methylvaleric Acid
Mimosa Absolute and Extract
Molasses Extract and Tincture
Mountain Maple Solid Extract
Mullein Flowers
Myristaldehyde
Myristic Acid
Myrrh Oil
beta-Napthyl Ethyl Ether
Nerol
Neroli Bigarde Oil
Nerolidol
Nona-2-trans,6-cis-Dienal
2,6-Nonadien-1-Ol
gamma-Nonalactone
Nonanal
Nonanoic Acid
Nonanone
trans-2-Nonen-1-Ol
2-Nonenal
Nonyl Acetate
Nutmeg Powder and Oil
Oak Chips Extract and Oil
Oak Moss Absolute
9,12-Octadecadienoic Acid (48%) And 9,12,15-Octadecatrienoic Acid (52%)
delta-Octalactone
gamma-Octalactone
Octanal
Octanoic Acid
1-Octanol
2-Octanone
3-Octen-2-One
1-Octen-3-Ol
1-Octen-3-Yl Acetate
2-Octenal
Octyl Isobutyrate
Oleic Acid
Olibanum Oil
Opoponax Oil And Gum
Orange Blossoms Water, Absolute, and Leaf Absolute
Orange Oil and Extract
Origanum Oil
Orris Concrete Oil and Root Extract
Palmarosa Oil
Palmitic Acid
Parsley Seed Oil
Patchouli Oil
omega-Pentadecalactone
2,3-Pentanedione
2-Pentanone
4-Pentenoic Acid
2-Pentylpyridine
Pepper Oil, Black And White
Peppermint Oil
Peruvian (Bois De Rose) Oil
Petitgrain Absolute, Mandarin Oil and Terpeneless Oil
alpha-Phellandrene
2-Phenenthyl Acetate
Phenenthyl Alcohol
Phenethyl Butyrate
Phenethyl Cinnamate
Phenethyl Isobutyrate
Phenethyl Isovalerate
Phenethyl Phenylacetate
Phenethyl Salicylate
1-Phenyl-1-Propanol
3-Phenyl-1-Propanol
2-Phenyl-2-Butenal
4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-Ol
4-Phenyl-3-Buten-2-One
Phenylacetaldehyde
Phenylacetic Acid
1-Phenylalanine
3-Phenylpropionaldehyde
3-Phenylpropionic Acid
3-Phenylpropyl Acetate
3-Phenylpropyl Cinnamate
2-(3-Phenylpropyl)Tetrahydrofuran
Phosphoric Acid
Pimenta Leaf Oil
Pine Needle Oil, Pine Oil, Scotch
Pineapple Juice Concentrate
alpha-Pinene, beta-Pinene
D-Piperitone
Piperonal
Pipsissewa Leaf Extract
Plum Juice
Potassium Sorbate
1-Proline
Propenylguaethol
Propionic Acid
Propyl Acetate
Propyl para-Hydroxybenzoate
Propylene Glycol
3-Propylidenephthalide
Prune Juice and Concentrate
Pyridine
Pyroligneous Acid And Extract
Pyrrole
Pyruvic Acid
Raisin Juice Concentrate
Rhodinol
Rose Absolute and Oil
Rosemary Oil
Rum
Rum Ether
Rye Extract
Sage, Sage Oil, and Sage Oleoresin
Salicylaldehyde
Sandalwood Oil, Yellow
Sclareolide
Skatole
Smoke Flavor
Snakeroot Oil
Sodium Acetate
Sodium Benzoate
Sodium Bicarbonate
Sodium Carbonate
Sodium Chloride
Sodium Citrate
Sodium Hydroxide
Solanone
Spearmint Oil
Styrax Extract, Gum and Oil
Sucrose Octaacetate
Sugar Alcohols
Sugars
Tagetes Oil
Tannic Acid
Tartaric Acid
Tea Leaf and Absolute
alpha-Terpineol
Terpinolene
Terpinyl Acetate
5,6,7,8-Tetrahydroquinoxaline
1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclo(8.3.0.0(4,9))Tridecane
2,3,4,5, and 3,4,5,6-Tetramethylethyl-Cyclohexanone
2,3,5,6-Tetramethylpyrazine
Thiamine Hydrochloride
Thiazole
1-Threonine
Thyme Oil, White and Red
Thymol
Tobacco Extracts
Tochopherols (mixed)
Tolu Balsam Gum and Extract
Tolualdehydes
para-Tolyl 3-Methylbutyrate
para-Tolyl Acetaldehyde
para-Tolyl Acetate
para-Tolyl Isobutyrate
para-Tolyl Phenylacetate
Triacetin
2-Tridecanone
2-Tridecenal
Triethyl Citrate
3,5,5-Trimethyl -1-Hexanol
para,alpha,alpha-Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol
4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-Enyl)But-2-En-4-One
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-Ene-1,4-Dione
2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl Methan
4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One
2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone
2,3,5-Trimethylpyrazine
1-Tyrosine
delta-Undercalactone
gamma-Undecalactone
Undecanal
2-Undecanone, 1
0-Undecenal
Urea
Valencene
Valeraldehyde
Valerian Root Extract, Oil and Powder
Valeric Acid
gamma-Valerolactone
Valine
Vanilla Extract And Oleoresin
Vanillin
Veratraldehyde
Vetiver Oil
Vinegar
Violet Leaf Absolute
Walnut Hull Extract
Water
Wheat Extract And Flour
Wild Cherry Bark Extract
Wine and Wine Sherry
Xanthan Gum
3,4-Xylenol
Yeast
When these ingredients are burned however, they produce a whole host of chemical compounds which a person takes in with every breath of smoke. One of the toxic byproducts present in cigarette smoke is hydrogen cyanide. Of course no one would willingly inhale this chemical which, under the name of Zyklon B, was used as a genocidal agent during World War II, but smokers do it multiple times with every cigarette they light. Because hydrogen cyanide is present in second hand smoke, nonsmokers are also at risk.
Hydrogen cyanide at room temperature is a volatile, colorless-to-blue liquid (also called hydrocyanidic acid). It rapidly becomes a gas that can produce death in minutes if breathed.
Hydrogen cyanide is used in making fibers, plastics, dyes, pesticides, and other chemicals, and as a fumigant to kill rats. It is also used in electroplating metals and in developing photographic film.
Breathing small amounts of hydrogen cyanide may cause:
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
Generally, the more serious the exposure, the more severe the symptoms. Similar symptoms may be produced when solutions of hydrogen cyanide are ingested or come in contact with the skin.
Treatment for hydrogen cyanide poisoning includes breathing pure oxygen, and in the case of serious symptoms, treatment with specific cyanide antidotes. Persons with serious symptoms will need to be hospitalized.
So I ask again, should am employer be able to decide it is okay to expose their employees to these toxins?
Wow, that's almost as many ingredients as in a bag of Doritos!
Smokers, look at this as the first step toward your rehabilitation. Smokers kill inocent people, there is nothing to argue.
Anonymous wrote:
"If you intend to remove a right, or ban a behavior that was previously legal you should have to prove two things 1) a serious public danger, and 2) that there is no less intrusive way to solve the problem.
We can argue point one until the universe perishes from heat death, but point 2 is the sticky bit. Why is it necessary to limit a previously enjoyed freedom? If there are no smoke-free bars in your area, why not? Would it be so hard to convince a bar owner that a large majority of his patrons would prefer that the bar be somke free?"
Okay, first, NO, we can not argue point one. It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt with all the scientific certainty in the world that second-hand smoke is a serious health risk. It's a settled issue.
As to point two, the fact that tobacco, which absolutely and inarguably kills people, is also highly-addictive means that people who smoke are addicts who are unable to follow behavior that will keep them from harm. Further, they have proven that, aside from putting their own health at risk, they selfishly insist on hurting those around them.
So, yes, smoking is a dangerous health hazard, and the previously-legal activity of smoking in public--much like other previously -legal activities like smoking opium, spitting, snorting cocaine and segregating races--should be banned by law because those people who indulge in that behavior are unable or unwilling to curb it to a reasonable level. The air quality in most bars is bad enough that, if a measurement like that were taken outdoors, an immediate evacuation would be ordered.
For you smokers, step number one is admitting that you're an addict.
I heard on TV that more companies are going to start putting overweight employees through some kind of fat camp, and at least not hire smokers...
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
headache
dizziness
weakness
nausea
vomiting
Larger amounts may cause:
gasping
irregular heartbeats
seizures
fainting
rapid death
Think this is repetative?
So do the people needlessly dying from this epidemic.
I think they should illegalize ALL the above by products.And the symptpons that go with them.NOTHING I HATE MORE THAN THINGS I DON`t LIKE.
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